Election Results
Most Americans are familiar with the famous photo of Harry Truman holding a newspaper with the banner headline "Dewey Defeats Truman." Part of the reason that the paper was willing to go to press without the final electoral tally was the anticipated effect of the Dixiecrat and Progressive (Henry Wallace) candidates on both the Southern and liberal elements of the Democratic Party. The final tally:
* Harry S. Truman, Democratic — 49.5%
* Thomas E. Dewey, Republican — 45.1%
* Strom Thurmond, States' Rights — 2.4%
* Henry A. Wallace, Progressive — 2.4%
Thurmond carried Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and South Carolina.
Strom Thurmond and the Civil Rights Act of 1957
The Civil Rights Act of 1957 was introduced and strongly supported by Senator Lyndon B. Johnson (D-TX). It passed in spite of a filibuster led by Senator Strom Thurmond (D-SC, who switched to R-SC in 1964), during which Thurmond spoke for a Senate record of 24 hours 18 minutes.
Debating the History
Herbert Humphrey's speech on Civil Rights at the 1948 Democratic Convention was the final straw for the Dixiecrat contingent. They staged their walkout soon after.
The States' Rights party, also known as the "Dixiecrats," was a rump party that split off from the national Democratic party and ran candidates in the 1948 presidential election.
The party sprang into existence on July 17, 1948 when it held its national convention in Birmingham, Alabama. It was the formal expression of a growing sectional and civil rights revolt against the national Democratic party.
South Carolina Governor J. Strom Thurmond and Mississippi Governor J. Fielding Wright were nominated, respectively, for president and vice-president.
Alabamians played a major role in founding, directing, and sustaining the organization. Alabama was one of the most important Dixiecrat states thanks especially to three men who may be properly referred to as the "Dixiecrat triumvirate": former-Governor Frank M. Dixon, state Democratic Executive Committee chairman Gessner T. McCorvey, and Birmingham attorney and political boss Horace C. Wilkinson.
Dixiecrats organized in response to President Harry S. Truman's proposed 1948 civil rights package, understood by many whites as the greatest threatened federal intrusion into the South since Reconstruction. The package consisted of four primary pieces of legislation: abolition of the poll tax, a federal anti-lynching law, desegregation legislation, and a permanent Federal Employment Practices Committee (FEPC) to prevent racial discrimination in jobs funded by federal dollars.
Dixiecrats portrayed their movement in the best possible light, as one designed to guarantee state sovereignty and constitutionally-guaranteed states' rights and reestablish Southern preeminence in the Democratic party. But the most important motive behind the movement was securing states' rights and constitutional principles in order to accomplish an overriding goal: preservation of the South's racial status quo.
In Alabama, the Dixiecrats won an intramural state fight with regular or "Loyalist" Democrats and thereby controlled the state's party machinery. As a result, incumbent President Harry Truman's name did not even appear on the 1948 presidential ballot in Alabama.
Despite the splintering of the Democratic party by the Dixiecrats on the right, and the Progressive party on the left (which nominated former Vice President and Secretary of Agriculture Henry A. Wallace), President Truman won reelection in the biggest upset in American political history. His margin of victory over Republican Thomas E. Dewey was only four-tenths of one percent. The Dixiecrats and the Progressives polled over a million votes, and the Dixiecrats were able to sweep four states (Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and South Carolina), securing 39 electoral votes.
ELECTIONS : 1948
President Harry S. Truman, who had succeeded President Roosevelt after his death in 1945, stood for reelection on the Democratic ticket with Alben Barkley of Kentucky as his running mate. When the Democratic convention adopted a strong civil rights plank, southern delegates walked out and formed the States' Rights party. The Dixiecrats, as they were called, nominated Governor Strom Thurmond of South Carolina for president and Fielding Wright for vice president. A new left-leaning Progressive party nominated former vice president Henry A. Wallace of Iowa for president with Glen Taylor, a senator from Idaho, as his running mate. The Republican slate consisted of two prominent governors: Thomas E. Dewey of New York and Earl Warren of California.
Although polls and conventional wisdom predicted a Dewey victory, Truman campaigned vigorously as the underdog, making a famous whistle-stop tour of the country aboard a special train. Results were uncertain to the last minute. A well-known photograph shows Truman the day after the election smiling broadly and holding aloft a newspaper with the headline dewey defeats truman. The paper was wrong: Truman had received 24,105,812 popular votes, or 49.5 percent of the total; Dewey, 21,970,065, or 45.1 percent. Thurmond and Wallace each received about 1.2 million votes. The Democratic victory in the electoral college was more substantial: Truman beat Dewey 303 to 189; Thurmond received 39 votes, and Wallace none.
The Truth about the Dixiecrats
What they were about.
Besides segregation, what was in the 1948 platform of the states-rights' Democratic party? On the Larry King's CNN show, Senator Lott said that Strom Thurmond would have been a good president because he would have made a strong national defense and a balanced budget priorities. Let's take a look at the official Dixiecrat platform, as published in the reference book National Party Platforms. To start with, there's nothing about national defense or the budget.
By far the largest portion of the Dixiecrat platform is an extensive endorsement of states' rights. This defense was couched in strongly stated appeals to constitutional values, such as "the constitutional right to choose one's associates; to accept private employment without governmental interference, and to earn one's living in any lawful way." Yet state segregation laws interfered with all these rights, and with the Constitution.
Jim Crow laws forbade interracial marriage. They imposed segregation on private business such as trains, trolleys, restaurants, hotels, boarding houses, and theaters. For example, some states made it a crime for a black barber to cut a white woman's hair. Some of the businesses covered by Jim Crow laws would have segregated anyway, but some would not have bothered, and the laws which Governor Thurmond was attempting to shield from federal interference were laws which interfered with the rights of business to choose how to serve their customers, and likewise interfered with the rights of customers to choose businesses.
The Dixiecrats were also angry that Truman, like Franklin Roosevelt, fervently supported union rights — another important element of "the constitutional right to choose one's associates."
There were five major sections of the Dixiecrat platform, one of which denounced "proposed FBI powers," and featured frantic warnings that the Democrats and Republicans both wanted to impose a totalitarian police state. In the platform's final section, "New Policy," two of the eight platform items further condemned "the effort to establish nation-wide a police state in this republic." (The Smoking Gun has an online version of the final section; TSG's version is from a state convention, and differs in some small ways from the final section of the official platform.)
Now if Senators Thurmond and Lott had adhered to this particular language of the 1948 platform, things might indeed be better in this country. But to the contrary, the Dixiecrat concerns about a police state appear to have existed solely in the context for federal efforts to secure civil rights for black people.
No senator outdid Strom Thurmond in the 1960s for outraged denunciation of the Supreme Court's strict enforcement of the criminal-procedure provisions of the Bill of Rights. In 2000, he and his staff were leading advocates of a proposal to allow government agents to conduct secret searches without obtaining search warrants.
In 1973-74, it was revealed that the Nixon White House had engaged in numerous police-state tactics, illegally attempting to use the IRS, the FBI, and the CIA against the president's political opponents. Article Two of the U.S. House Judiciary Committee's Articles of Impeachment summarized these offenses. Yet first-term Republican Representative Trent Lott voted against this Article of Impeachment.
He likewise voted against the first Article of Impeachment, based on President Nixon's cover-up and obstruction of the Watergate investigation. Hypocritically, he later voted to impeach President Clinton for obstruction of justice and perjury — although the Clinton offenses had occurred in the context of a private civil-rights lawsuit, whereas Nixon had been obstructing a criminal investigation about a presidential election.
After the House Judiciary Committee had reported the Articles of Impeachment, an unanimous Supreme Court decision forced the Nixon White House to release several of the tapes which Nixon had secretly recorded. The tapes proved Nixon's guilt of obstruction of justice beyond any doubt. Senate Republican leaders who had staunchly defended Nixon, such as Barry Goldwater and John Tower, decided that the president could no longer hold office. With Nixon's guilt certain, the White House found that only two senators were still certain to vote against impeaching the criminal president. Strom Thurmond was one of them.
Like Lott, Thurmond inconsistently voted to impeach President Clinton.
Thurmond bolted the 1948 Democratic Convention after Minneapolis Mayor Hubert Horatio Humphrey won a floor fight to amend the Platform to strengthen the civil-rights language. Humphrey's Amendment read:
We highly commend President Harry S. Truman for his courageous stand on the issue of civil rights.
We call upon the Congress to support our President in guaranteeing these basic and fundamental American Principles:
(1) the right to full and equal political participation;
(2) the right to equal opportunity of employment;
(3) the right to security of person;
(4) and the right of equal treatment in the service and defense of our nation.
That's why Thurmond ran for president. A principled advocate of small government could, as Barry Goldwater did, oppose the second item as applied to federal control of private employment. But every other item was a straightforward application of the equal-protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and of the Fifteenth Amendment: the right of black people to vote; the right of black people to be hired for federal, state, and local government jobs without discrimination; the right of black people to own and carry arms for protection, and to receive police protection, against criminals such as the Ku Klux Klan; and the right to serve equally in the United States military.
The Dixiecrat platform quoted from the 1840 Democratic platform, which was the platform of the great Democratic President Martin Van Buren. More than any other President, Van Buren faithfully followed the Constitution, so his platform — fewer than 1,000 words long — is an especially valuable guide for constitutionalists. The part quoted by the Dixiecrats resolved:
That Congress has no power under the constitution, to interfere with or control the domestic institutions of the several states; and such states are the sole and proper judges of everything pertaining to their own affairs, not prohibited by the constitution….
The 1840 platform went to warn, accurately, that Abolitionism would endanger the Union. As a result of the Civil War, the Constitution was changed, and the Fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendments were added. From the late 1870s onward, the equal-protection clause and the prohibition of racial discrimination in voting were nullified in much of America. In seeking to enforce the Constitution, President Truman was following in the footsteps of constitutionalist President Van Buren.
The Dixiecrats made sure not to quote another paragraph of the 1840 platform:
that every citizen and every section of the country has a right to demand and insist upon an equality of rights and privileges, and to complete and ample protection of persons and property from domestic violence or foreign aggression.
That statement is the principle on which the Fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendments are based. States' rights were not a legitimate constitutional basis for states to violate the constitutional rights of their citizens.
Senator Lott shouldn't be pilloried for once calling the Civil War a war of "aggression," for there was a plausible case to made the that Confederate states had a right to secede. There are a good number of Southerners of his generation and older — some of them quite liberal and quite in favor of civil rights — who say the same thing.
But in 1948, with the south firmly in the Union, the south had a duty to obey the Constitution. The Dixiecrats of 1948 stood for nullifying the Constitution, not obeying it, and they were renegades against not only Harry Truman, but against the great historic principles of the Democratic party.
The Dixiecrats supported the raw power of Jim Crow over the lawful command of the Constitution; likewise, Congressmen Thurmond and Lott supported a criminal president of their party who attacked the constitutional rule of law. It is truly a blessing for America that Strom Thurmond never became president. Senator Lott is the wrong choice to lead a party which seeks to follow constitutional values.
America’s Journey From "Dixiecrats" to "Rednecklicans"
by David Benjamin
For much of 20th-century politics, one of the dilemmas of being a liberal was that vast swathes of America teemed with unsavory and grossly illiberal characters who were fiercely loyal to the Democratic Party. This is because -- despite its Northern, progressive elements -- the Democratic Party was ironically the historic home of Jim Crow. The party of FDR, Harry Truman and Julian Bond also harbored America's staunchest segregationists. The breakaway "Dixiecrat" movement of 1948 was led by a South Carolina Democrat named Strom Thurmond.
Thurmond said, "All the laws of Washington and all the bayonets of the army cannot force... the southern people to break down segregation and admit the Negro race into our theaters, into our swimming pools, into our homes and into our churches."
Strom changed parties after a turncoat southerner named Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 and 1965. LBJ then said that Democrats had lost the South for the next generation. He was right. In a rush of bitter defections, southern voters and politicians fled the Democratic Party.
Richard Nixon, campaigning in 1968, did his utmost to assure that America's segregationist diehards, white supremacists and anti-Semites would find a new political klavern. Nixon invented the "race card" and transformed the Republican Party, the party of Lincoln and the wellspring of the Emancipation Proclamation, into the last bastion of the Confederacy. The G.O.P. has been playing the same hand -- with remarkable impunity -- in every election since.
As Robert Kuttner noted in a January 2003 issue of The American Prospect, ever since Nixon devised his southern strategy, "the Republican grand electoral design has been based on locking up the white South while playing to the white backlash in the North. Often the appeals to race are tacit, sometimes they are crude; but the stance is unmistakable to anyone who bothered to notice."
Among the cruder of these appeals was the Willie Horton slander fomented against Michael Dukakis on behalf of George H.W. Bush in 1988 by a campaign hatchetman named Roger Ailes, who is now CEO of Fox News. Comparatively tacit among the G.O.P.'s racist efforts was the suppression of black votes in Florida in 2000 (and again in Ohio in 2004). The winner both times, George W. Bush, insists that he’s "compassionate" about blacks, especially the type who reject "affirmative action," "quotas," and other liberal stumbling blocks to a "color-blind" America. And he loves getting his picture taken with pickaninnies.
The Republicans deny that they are the electoral refuge for America's bigots. But whenever an ex-Klansman, decrying the mongrelization of the white race, enters a primary election somewhere in Louisiana or Texas, it's always a Republican primary.
The Republicans insist they are "working hard" to win African-American votes. But the G.O.P.'s chronic failure to crack even 10 percent among black voters indicates that they're working harder to foster a constituency they value much more dearly, commonly described as "non-college-educated white males," which is pollster code for "rednecks and yahoos."
The G.O.P. regularly trots out black appointees to showcase their openmindedness. Trouble is, when these G.O.P. "house Negroes" are allowed to speak, they avoid terms like "social justice" and "voting rights." Examined closely, they tend to be non-partisan overachievers like Colin Powell or -- at worst -- self-loathing Stepin Fetchits like Clarence Thomas. Or they're just trying to pass for white, like Condoleezza Rice.
The "race card" works for the G.O.P., in a circular way. It validates racists by giving them a place to go, thus perpetuating America's historic traditions of bigotry and segregation, which nurtures the Republicans as the party that's not prejudiced against the prejudiced. Around and around...
Still, I gotta ask: Why aren't some (or any) Republicans embarrassed?
I can't believe that most white Republicans favor racial hatred. But they must know that that their ranks include people who vote for white candidates solely because they’re white, and who would never vote for a black candidate simply because he or she is black. Surely, they must know that many of their fellow Republicans think it was a fine idea to shoot Medger Evers, Martin Luther King, Jr., Robert F. Kennedy, James Chaney, Andrew Goodman, Michael Schwerner... Etcetera.
Democrats were embarrassed by George Wallace and Bull Connor. Why aren't Republicans embarrassed by David Duke and Bob Jones?
Maybe it's just pragmatism. The G.O.P. tolerates its hordes of red-state rednecks because, if not for all those straight-ticket bigots, the Republicans don't think they could win.
Not long ago, Democrats certainly thought so. They stayed embarrassed for a long time. But eventually, Democrats told their leaders we'd rather lose a few votes in Tallahatchie County than be on the same side as the monsters who lynched Emmett Till. They said, hey, let’s try a trade with the Republicans. They get electoral votes in Georgia, Virginia, Carolina, Alabama, Texas, etc. In return we get the legacies of Abe Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Jr., Ralph Abernathy, Rosa Parks, Judge James Horton, Justice Thurgood Marshall... Etcetera.
Maybe Republicans could do it, too -- tell their leaders they don't want to be the party of voter intimidation and KKK nostalgia anymore. Maybe then, the race card would finally become too risky to play, even among campaign strategists.
Yes, I hear you, Dr. King. It’s just a dream.
posted by Wayne World | 8:07 PM
52 Comments:
Funny that you would still deny who the Dixiecrats are. There is a tally of exactly how the overwhelming majority stayed in the Democrat party. soundboyz, I will never argue that racism is a good thing, you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am not a racist, but I think that you fail to observe who you continually defend.
And the fact that Thurmond was only a small part of the filibuster. Robert Byrd was the major one, and he remians revered as the conscious of the Senate.
An objective post is on my blog.
Byrd did not set a record for a combined total of 68 hours, because he yielded the floor six times, by the way. However he did basically read recipes for his time.
> I will never argue that racism is a good thing, you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am not a racist,
You'll never argue that it's a BAD thing either!!!!!You remind me of these Dixiecrats, you are all for states rights and the reduction of the Federal government because you know that when the fed's role is reduced , then you can roll back protection of civil rights!!!!
Yea, I know , you go out drinking with some black folks!!!!Yep, sure you're NOT racist!!!!!Don't even tell me about the black chick you are supposedly seeing either, we all know Strom Thurman loved some black women!!!!You ARE a racist!!!!You are the worst kind because because you pretend to be cool with blacks , but want to roll things back to slavery , or at least segregation. And NO, I am NOT joking!!!!!I figured you out BUDDY!!!!
Yep, you have me figured out. Nevermind the obvious fact that I am trying to get you to see that you are being misled by your Party. Nevermind the FACT that no matter how you treat me in our discussions, I still try to show you that you're mistaken in what you believe. Wonder why? Could it be that I want to weaken the Democrat Party or could it be that I am trying to show you that your opinions are important to the Republicans?
soundboyz, the Party that you try desperately to defend has turned their backs on you at every point in history. Never has the Democrat Party been the party that was for what you believe in, but you have fallen for the message in the Leftists circles.
If you ever open your eyes, you will see that the Republicans will welcome you to a truly big tent.
Oh, racism is a bad thing, no matter who practices it.
two dogs, I asked you before , and I ask you again, are you being payed in any way by the Republican party?
soundboyz, I am most definitely not being paid by anyone. You and I have had many good debates and I never took the time to really learn anything about the Dixiecrats. I did that today.
I do vote for Republicans because the Libertarians are yet to become a viable option. I just know that there is never anything that I agree with the Democrats on. They are for higher taxes, an entrenched pitiful Federal school system, and growth only in the size of government.
I am a conservative, fiscally and socially, not necessarily a Republican. And I think that you and I have much more in common than we would disagree on.
two dogs , after carefully thinking about ALL of your positions and statements over these past months , I have reached the conclusion that YOU are a RACIST !!!!! Everytime you are confronted with this accusation, you try to hide behind your 25% Native American status!!!I have seen your picture, you are a white REDNECK RACIST!!I don't care if you're 99.9% BLACK, you are a RACIST!!!!I don't care if you date Whoopi Goldberg, you are a RACIST!!!
I guess that I have to come to the conclusion that you don't respect my research skills. soundboyz, my opinions in this debate are irrelevent. My article stated who was a Dixiecrat and where they went at the end of the Party. I am sorry if you don't like it, it is FACT.
Anyone that would Whoopi Goldberg on anyone else is just too damn brutal. Man, that is just downright mean. And I guess that you know that it has nothing to do with the fact that she is Black, she is just ugly.
And no, I am not hiding behind anything dealing with being part-Indian. I do not adhere to the principles of the Indian, never have, never will. I guess that I would rather be regarded as a redneck. I am from Mississippi, I like Mississippi, and I'll probably die here.
soundboyz, I think that you and I have different definitions of racism. I believe that racism is discrimination because of someone's color or race. I think that you only believe that it means a white person that hates black people.
SB, would you email me please... I need to talk to you.
Wow, harsh. Two Dogs might be a redneck, but that doesn't make him racist!
Like I said in Two Dogs' blog, these "Dixiecrats" mostly did not change parties because most politicians don't, and the politician's lifespan is shorter than that of the average voter. Look at it this way. Whites in the deep south, the demographic with the most prejudice *as a group*, used to vote Democrat, and now they vote Republican. Follow the votes.
> Wow, harsh. Two Dogs might be a redneck, but that doesn't make him racist!
Erik, I understand that!!I did not base my remarks on the simple fact that he mentioned that he was a redneck !!!I have been in numerous exchanges and have read others, in which two dogs has said things that has caused myself , and others, to question if he is racist!!!
He has often denied these accusations by using the explanation that he is 25% Native American!!As far as I am concerned, he is white!!!!He has made statements which are unmistakably RACIST!!!I think ONE time , he eluded to blacks as MAYBE being adversely affected by slavery and racism!!!I will give him that!!!!I think it was a breakthrough moment for everyone that read that comment!!!
>I believe that racism is discrimination because of someone's color or race. I think that you only believe that it means a white person that hates black people.
Again, you are trying to think for me!!!I know what you are trying to imply!!!Listen, I have history and facts to level my charges against whites!!!!How many fucking BLACKS do you know that are even IN any POSITION to discriminate against whites !!!! Besides, I happen to think that if you have been discriminated against, and you fight back , this does not make you racist!!!!I am tolerant of ALL people, but if I believe that a certain group(or groups) has issues , I see no problem with calling them out!!!Whites have NO problems about voicing their opinions when it comes to blacks and other groups!!!
Oh, and I happen to think that the so called "jews" are white people from the Caucasus Mountains!!I don't differentiate them as being separate as whites. I think they ARE Poles, Slavs and Croats!!!I don't believe that they are any part of the original 12 tribes!!!I believe the original 12 tribes ended up in Ethiopia, and other parts of Africa. I don't believe that they turned WHITE!!!
>Like I said in Two Dogs' blog, these "Dixiecrats" mostly did not change parties because most politicians don't, and the politician's lifespan is shorter than that of the average voter. Look at it this way. Whites in the deep south, the demographic with the most prejudice *as a group*, used to vote Democrat, and now they vote Republican. Follow the votes.
Erik, I am fully aware of what took place in the south as far as party affiliation. two dogs wanted to get bogged down in semantics about how many politicians left what party, per his usual bullshit!!!!I find this shit insulting!!!!How much longer do people have to put up with these bullshit statements?!?!?It's like they don't think that black people are smart enough to understand that yes, the Dixiecrats did try and filibuster the civil rights act, but we all understand that the Dixiecrats were a splinter group of the Democratic party !! Sen. Byrd is the only remaining senator left in the Democratic party from that radical group!!I think Republicans don't give blacks enough credit for being smart enough to see past their blanket statements and their rhetoric!!!
>Whites in the deep south, the demographic with the most prejudice *as a group*, used to vote Democrat, and now they vote Republican. Follow the votes.
SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE two dogs!!!!!!!!!
Darling, Two Dogs like to make inflammatory statements to see what reaction they will provoke. Often, he's playing devil's advocate. Obviously, you've taken his comments too much to heart, and that is too bad, because I'd be willing to bet (and I an not a gambler) that he did not intend for you to take insult as you have.
*hugs*
The first part of this post was very informative, as I knew little about the Dixiecrats.
But when you attempt to tar modern Republicans with the same brush, tsk, tsk, you swerved into a ditch, so to speak. We are not the same as our parents or grandparents as far as philosophies.
..."You'll never argue that it's a BAD thing either!!!!!You remind me of these Dixiecrats, you are all for states rights and the reduction of the Federal government because you know that when the fed's role is reduced , then you can roll back protection of civil rights!!!!
...You ARE a racist!!!!You are the worst kind because because you pretend to be cool with blacks , but want to roll things back to slavery , or at least segregation.
Calm down soundboyz! No sensible person sees any value in racism. Just because some of the stances of modern Republicans may sound like some of the stances of the Dixiecrats, you need to examine each stance individually.
Excepting the wackos, nobody wants to return to Jim Crow. Segregation violates the letter and the spirit of the equal protection clause of the Constitution, among other things. Aside from being Conservative/ Libertarian, I am also a Pragmatist. Sometimes government arm-twisting, as in the South during the 1950s and 1960s, is necessary to get people to do the right thing. But once cultural changes have started to take place, government regulations need to be relaxed to accomodate the changes. There are always going to be some idiot racists and there is always going to be pockets of discrimination, but it is not a pervasive thing like it used to be. Just because Two Dogs chooses to debate you doesn't mean he is a racist.
As for ..."I don't believe that they are any part of the original 12 tribes!!!I believe the original 12 tribes ended up in Ethiopia, and other parts of Africa. I don't believe that they turned WHITE!!!"
If some of the original 12 tribes migrated south and west, into Africa (perfectly logical as humans do roam), why is it not logical that some of them might have migrated north and northwest, through modern-day Turkey, Greece, Italy, and northward into Europe?
Hey joe, I appreciate your comments!!As I said before on two dogs site, I do tend to have anger management issues!!!I seem to have little patience for other's opinions when I think that it is nonsense!!!!This is wrong!!I know that this is intolerant behavior, and I am working on it!
As far as two dogs positions being similar to the Dixiecrats, it is hard for me to believe that he holds these same opinions, yet does not have the same ulterior motives as the Dixiecrats did!!
As someone who has experienced racism first hand throughout my life, including my military, and civilian careers, I know that it is not blatant as it was back during lynchings and tar and featherings, but the attitude behind it is still alive and well!!!
I would not be so adamant if I did not experience these things personally. So, forgive me if I am skeptical of whites demanding an end to black history month, affirmative action, quotas, civil rights legislation, etc.!
Any white person who proclaims that racism is a thing of the past , shows to me that they are ignorant because they cannot speak to the current state of racism towards blacks!!!They are WHITE!!!
>Darling, Two Dogs like to make inflammatory statements to see what reaction they will provoke. Often, he's playing devil's advocate. Obviously, you've taken his comments too much to heart, and that is too bad, because I'd be willing to bet (and I an not a gambler) that he did not intend for you to take insult as you have.
*hugs*
Kelly, I used to think that two dogs was just being provocative as well. But now, I'm not so sure!!!
It is one thing to debate the issues, it's another thing to try and label someone as stupid!!!I am not stupid and I find these personal attacks offensive!!
The comment I made on your site had nothing to do with him, yet he made it a point to try and paint me as an uninformed idiot!!I don't appreciate that!!!What I said was accurate.
Kelly , I sent you an email. Did you receive it?
>But when you attempt to tar modern Republicans with the same brush, tsk, tsk, you swerved into a ditch, so to speak. We are not the same as our parents or grandparents as far as philosophies.
joe, I certainly hope that you are not speaking for the millions of people who fit into this category!!!!
>Calm down soundboyz! No sensible person sees any value in racism. Just because some of the stances of modern Republicans may sound like some of the stances of the Dixiecrats, you need to examine each stance individually.
But joe, if it walks like a duck.....
I disagree with your statement about no sensible person seeing any value in racism. I see plenty of value in racism for racists!!The value would be that there is less compitition for whites as far as jobs, wealth, property, WHITE WOMEN,education, and an all around general feeling of elitism!
>Just because Two Dogs chooses to debate you doesn't mean he is a racist.
joe, it's not because he and I debate that cause me to level those charges against him. It is because of his positions and opinions that has led me to draw these conclusions!
>If some of the original 12 tribes migrated south and west, into Africa (perfectly logical as humans do roam), why is it not logical that some of them might have migrated north and northwest, through modern-day Turkey, Greece, Italy, and northward into Europe?
This is not improbable, however I don't think people of ethnic origins, can be void of these ethnic traits within a period of two or three thousand years. I believe that these people have learned the religion of Judaism , and are also claiming the history and legacy of Jews. I can learn Judaism this year and claim Israel as MY homeland !!
Soundboyz, racists are not sensible people! Hate is a burden and over time, it will weigh you down. Most white folks that I know do not want to be perceived as racists. It is not pervasive as it was during and shortly after the Jim Crow era. The Jim Crow people are dying off. There will always be individual idiots.
Some white racists (though not all) are those at "the bottom". Often people in that position are looking for someone else to blame. I have no plausible explanation when learned people such as doctors and lawyers are vocal racists (or more accurately bigots).
Every bad thing that happens to you is not because of race. Bad stuff happens to white folks too.
By the way, Neal Boortz and I agree in the concept of Black History Month, as Black History, in many cases has been buried or otherwise obscured. It needs to be highlighted, then blended into American history. White kids need to know that there were black cowboys, black gunfighters, black Continental Army soldiers, black Confederate soldiers, black fighter pilots in WWII, black race car drivers (visit http://www.pbs.org/forgoldandglory/), black scientists, etc..
The problem that some Conservatives have with things such as Affirmative Action is that they were designed as blanket policies to address blanket problems. I don't have a problem with using AA when you have a specific, provable case of discrimination. I just have a problem with blanket regulations & laws, when we need a more specific strategy. Blanket solutions tend to include and persecute innocent people, which in turn triggers a backlash effect.
Joe's point on Black History Month was the point that I highlighted throughout the entire month of February.
soundboyz, I agree with your comment that if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, blah, it probably is. I am sure that you would be able to pick out "code words" in my comments that would label me as racist, but I do not have to look for code words from you. If it walks like a duck....
As I commented last week, I can't take this obviously racist stuff.
joe, as always, I appreciate your comments! You do make several valid points! For starters, you said "Most white folks that I know do not want to be perceived as racists".This is true because after laws were passed by the federal government outlawing segregation and racism, it was ILLEGAL to practice these things openly, so people had no choice as far as practicing these policies publicly! However, racism is not a choice, racism stems from DEEPLY ROOTED feelings and ideals.These things remain in the heart and minds of MANY whites in America today!!!And yes, it is in the south as well as the north, in the Democratic party as well as the Republican party!!
> It is not pervasive as it was during and shortly after the Jim Crow era.
Again joe , I think this has to do with the federal government laws that were passed, and not any "change" in racist's mentality !!!
>Some white racists (though not all) are those at "the bottom". Often people in that position are looking for someone else to blame. I have no plausible explanation when learned people such as doctors and lawyers are vocal racists (or more accurately bigots).
I also agree with this comment !I think the majority of racist whites are at the "bottom" and are just looking for someone to blame, but these whites take their cues from prominent whites who also hold these same racist beliefs!!I think that politicians have been , and continue to, exploit these types for support!
>Every bad thing that happens to you is not because of race. Bad stuff happens to white folks too.
joe, I find this remark insulting !!!! First, I NEVER said that every bad thing that happened to me was the result of racism!!!This just shows how you think that I think!!!!I am smart enough to know when something is just misfortune, and when something was racially motivated!!!!I think you just demonstrated the problem with some white people's thinking, and their ignorance of the American black experience!!!I don't expect you to even believe that racism still exists!!!It is the same with profiling, I don't expect you to believe this is true,unless you've seen reports of it on the news!!!
>By the way, Neal Boortz and I agree in the concept of Black History Month, as Black History, in many cases has been buried or otherwise obscured. It needs to be highlighted, then blended into American history. White kids need to know that there were black cowboys, black gunfighters, black Continental Army soldiers, black Confederate soldiers, black fighter pilots in WWII, black race car drivers (visit http://www.pbs.org/forgoldandglory/), black scientists, etc..
joe,I concur!! Thanks for the link!I most certainly will check it out!!I really believe that there should be no need to differentiate between black history, and history, but due to the racist society that we live in, it is an unfortunate must!!
>The problem that some Conservatives have with things such as Affirmative Action is that they were designed as blanket policies to address blanket problems. I don't have a problem with using AA when you have a specific, provable case of discrimination. I just have a problem with blanket regulations & laws, when we need a more specific strategy. Blanket solutions tend to include and persecute innocent people, which in turn triggers a backlash effect.
joe, I need you to pay particular attention to my next comment . Affirmative Action was not so much designed to combat discrimination as much as it was designed to offset the negative results of many years of Racism!!!In other words, AA was designed as a sort of counterbalance to right many years of blanket racism !!! See, whites view it as wrong and racist to give someone an advantage based on race ......and are quick to label it unfair!!I agree that AA would be racist and unfair, if it's purpose was not to try and offset SO MANY YEARS of RACISM and UNFAIRNESS!!I know , it's hard to comprehend when it is done to you, just think of how blacks feel about racism and discrimination!!!
> Joe's point on Black History Month was the point that I highlighted throughout the entire month of February.
You're point was that there should NOT be a black history month!!!!
>soundboyz, I agree with your comment that if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, blah, it probably is. I am sure that you would be able to pick out "code words" in my comments that would label me as racist, but I do not have to look for code words from you. If it walks like a duck....
As I commented last week, I can't take this obviously racist stuff.
If you want to call me racist because I choose to speak out about racism from whites against black and brown people, then I PROUDLY accept the title!!!
soundboyz, obviously you missed the entire point of my comments on BHM. There should not be a Black History Month because it separates "Black History" from history as a whole. The two have to be taught in the same time frame. My reasoning is sound and not based on racism, it's based on fitting the parts together instead of severing the history of Black people from everyone else and creating an even more segmented society.
I guess that the reason that you decided that I was racist is because I continually point out the extreme racism in your remarks. Then I guess that you and I are two of a feather, however, I challenge you to find any sliver of racism in my remarks. Please try not to point out "Code Words".
Affirmative Action was NEVER supposed to make reparations for any type of discrimination, it was supposed to level the playing field. If anyone decides that they want Racial Quotas, they should come out and call it what it is. Personally, I refuse to hire a man or woman simply because of the color of their skin, and there is no law anywhere that can force me to do that. I would sooner close the doors of my business that be forced to practice racism and that is what you are advocating.
>Affirmative Action was NEVER supposed to make reparations for any type of discrimination, it was supposed to level the playing field.
I NEVER said it was supposed to make reparations for discrimination, I said "Affirmative Action was not so much designed to combat discrimination as much as it was designed to offset the negative results of many years of Racism!!!In other words, AA was designed as a sort of counterbalance to right many years of blanket racism !!! See, whites view it as wrong and racist to give someone an advantage based on race ......and are quick to label it unfair!!I agree that AA would be racist and unfair, if it's purpose was not to try and offset SO MANY YEARS of RACISM and UNFAIRNESS!!I know , it's hard to comprehend when it is done to you, just think of how blacks feel about racism and discrimination!!!" No where in there did I mention reparations!!!The only thing that I was wrong about was saying that it gave an advantage!!It does NOT!!!If whites weren't so racist, there wouldn't be a need for AA!!
> I would sooner close the doors of my business that be forced to practice racism and that is what you are advocating.
I am not advocating SHIT!!!!Stop putting words in my mouth!!!AA was , and is still needed to counteract racist white MEN!!!
soundboyz, I simply read what you wrote about Affirmitive Action and interpreted what I read.
>Affirmative Action was not so much designed to combat discrimination as much as it was designed to offset the negative results of many years of Racism
And soundboyz, it does seem like you are advocating hiring and promotion based solely on race.
The idea that I advocate is teaching our children to look up to people that have perservered over obstacles, despite the color. Clarence Thomas would be a perfect case if my son wanted to become a lawyer. His color is irrelevent, his ambition is the focus.
If you could point to Bill Clinton and tell your son that he lived through the hard times and still elevated himself to the Presidency, well maybe Clinton is not that good a choice.
MYRTLE BEACH, S.C. – For the two weeks leading up to Memorial Day in this kitschy beach town, bikers rule.
Motorcyclists burn rubber, throw "smoke shows," and flaunt their American choppers and Japanese "rice rockets," all with the Atlantic's thrumming breakers in the background, washing away the last of winter's spell.
In the wake of last week's Carolina Harley dealers' rally, which drew hundreds of thousands of mostly white bikers, a massive crowd of mostly black motorcyclists is arriving for this weekend's Atlantic Beach Memorial Day Bike Festival. It's one of the biggest black street parties in the nation, and the mood in Myrtle Beach abruptly shifts.
Despite their reputation for mayhem, the Harley riders are left largely alone during their 10-day festival. During "Black Bike Week," however, the city blocks streets, adds 300 officers, and makes 60 blocks of Ocean Boulevard one way
If this isn't racism, what is it? I think this is the what drives soundboz up the wall. As it should.
>The idea that I advocate is teaching our children to look up to people that have perservered over obstacles, despite the color. Clarence Thomas would be a perfect case if my son wanted to become a lawyer. His color is irrelevent, his ambition is the focus.
Right, you seem to be advocating the racist views of the republican party!!!Basically, what you are saying is that even if you're black, as long as you embrace the racism of the republicans, there will always be a place for you.Clarence Thomas is a sellout !Teach your kid that!!! Condoleeza Rice is a SELLOUT !!! Teach him that !!!!Keep thinking that black people are STUPID!!!!We know why these people were ALLOWED to rise to their current positions, republicans NEED sellout blacks to be spokespersons!!
And we know about the black female judge that Bush keeps pushing for!!She's not only a SELLOUT, she's CRAZY!!
>If you could point to Bill Clinton and tell your son that he lived through the hard times and still elevated himself to the Presidency, well maybe Clinton is not that good a choice.
Yep, and you can also teach your son that Bush went from a privileged coke snorting, dope smoking, draft dodging , insider trading , corrupt businessman, to become President!Oh, and since you believe in the war so much, I hope you are chomping at the bit to sign junior up!!
> If this isn't racism, what is it? I think this is the what drives soundboz up the wall. As it should.
Patches, I have experienced some blatant acts of racism in my life!!Seriously, I know how the game is played. People think that because it was outlawed by the federal government, racism is a thing of the past. It reminds me of prohibition,even though alcohol was banned , people still made sure that the drinks kept flowing.Hey, they were able to have prohibition overturned!!!
>Yes, racism STILL exsists and if you don't believe it, you are lucky enough to not have to experience it.
Imara, I don't think some whites actually believe that racism still exists!!I think that they think it's long been forgotten ! As a matter of fact, some whites wish that it was long forgotten. I have been thinking about that statement from katiemagic! It really made an impact on me. I think some whites just want the whole thing to be forgotten.
The problem with that is if we just forget, whites can always tout their supremacy over blacks , and say that they are superior to blacks and they could "prove it" by citing their success rate in society when it comes to education, wealth,home ownership, etc. I just don't see how some whites can say that slavery , racism, and segregation had little, or NO effect on the current state of blacks!!!!Just imagine if future black generations had NO knowledge of their ancestor's plight!!!
>Soundboyz: Other than blogging what forms of direct action are you involved with to make change(other than voting). Arm chair activisim is like pissing in the wind.
Goldi, that is a good question.I do challenge racism when I encounter it in my life!!I won't get into details, but I have taken steps to challenge racism .
Goldi, I think the message that was clearly sent to blacks during the 60's and 70's was that if you speak up , we will kill you!This message came directly from the U.S. government !! Goldi, I know that you are well aware of the government's policies to murder the Black Panthers and squash the movement!!You must know that the US government was also responsible for the killing of Dr. King and many other black leaders who dared to speak out against bigotry , racism and oppression!
This was all documented in secret FBI memo's that were stolen and leaked to the press by factions of the Weathermen !!I must also say that whites were also active in the struggle during that time!!I have to give them credit for entering the struggle and risking their lives for blacks!!
But my point is this: blacks have been sent a clear message that anyone who steps up in a leadership position and dares to speak out , will be slaughtered like deer!This is evident in the lack of REAL black leaders today!!With the exception of Minister Farrakhan , I see none willing to step up and risk his/her live for the cause !
soundboyz, there is not a push to recruit minorities so much as trying to show that while the Democrat party enjoys almost total Black allegiance, the ideology behind the Democrats platform has held the Blacks in bondage. If you don't believe that, look at the growth in actual wages in the Black community up until the mid-sixties and look how that growth has slowed since that time.
I have proven that the racists from the Dixiecrats stayed with the Party that you back. I am saying that as a Republican you would enjoy being a person rather than simply a black voter that is expected to stay on the Plantation. Thomas, Rice, Sowell, and Williams are all sell-outs because they began to think for themselves and realized that the Democrats expect Blacks to behave and do as they are told.
Instead of looking at them as Uncle Toms, I suggest that you view them as people that could never understand why anyone would vote for the party of dependency.
Oh, and the reason that people feared Huey Newton and the Panthers could be that they were murderers of their own group members. Never forget that.
> Nice lonnnnnnnng answer Soundboyz, but the question as not about Blacks in general it was pointed directly act you.
Goldi, if you read my answer , you would know that I said that I do things to fight bigotry and racism!!!I also said that I was not getting into details about how or what!!
>When this comments session is over what happens? Is this discussion/questions sent to a movement/human rights based organization to implement some plan or is this something to kill time while at work?
I don't understand, I blog to exchange ideas, learn, teach, and interact with others. Why are you pressing me as if I promised to do anything from blogging!!!
>How is all of this 'net bickering going to help humanity as a whole?
I NEVER promised to help humanity as a whole.I don't know!!Maybe someone like katiemagic will come along and make a comment that I find to be important !!! Maybe Patches will add a comment to teach me something.What do you want from me? It is just blogging .
Goldi, why attack me personally ? What have I done, or not done to cause you to press me for accountability?
Would you rather me talk about sex?
>Oh, and the reason that people feared Huey Newton and the Panthers could be that they were murderers of their own group members. Never forget that.
COINTELPRO!!!!!!
Oh, I forgot; the things that made me change my mind about my political leanings were that I entered the work force and quickly figured out that there was a part of my check going toward things that I didn't think were right.
I noticed that I was paying 13% toward a "retirement" program that was ultimately bankrupt and was not moving toward an investment type of program.
I noticed that I was paying for people other than my family to have healthcare and I was paying additional money to cover my own family.
I noticed that there were people that were being turned under by the policies of the Left in government subsidized housing and in public education. Oh, I worked in the industry for 7 years, I saw first hand what happens to people that take a hand-out from the Fed.
My parents voted for Democrats and Socialists ever since the day I was born, I just opened my mind to the theory of self-sufficiency and egoism. Trust me, it was an enlightening experience.
two dogs, i appreciate your concern for black people , and me in particular, but I know how to think for myself and I understand the history of this country , and BOTH parties!!I am smart enough to make up my own mind!!!Thanks anyway!!
>I noticed that I was paying 13% toward a "retirement" program that was ultimately bankrupt and was not moving toward an investment type of program.
Social Security is a good program . I don't appreciate you talking about it as if it were some sort of failure!!It has , and continue to work as it was designed!!!If the greedy republicans could understand the concept of a "LOCK BOX" and leave money designated for Social Security for that purpose only, then the program would not be in jeopardy!!!
Bush just wants to do away with it because he wants to use the billions designated for it and fund more wars and killing!!!This is fact, if surplus from Social Security was kept for that program , as it was designed, there would be absolutely NO talk of shortages!!It is a good program!!
You can let greedy wall street types rip you off!!! Why aren't you outraged at Neil Bush and the republicans for costing taxpayers BILLIONS for bailing out the S&L scam?!!!Why aren't you outraged at the way companies have been ripping off people's 401k?
>I'm glad you have seen the movie Panther
I have NEVER seen it!!!
>Not attacking. If someone of the same race challenges you it is an attack? And I love your baffle them with bullshit approach (regarding last statement).
What does race have to do with you attacking me? You are accusing me of being some armchair activist!!!I NEVER claim to be an activist!!!!I am just blogging and exchanging ideas!!!
And what baffle them with bullshit comment?I thought you were asking me what I was doing as far as fighting racism, I answered you!!!I also was commenting on why I think people aren't as willing to step up and do anything!!!None of it was BULLSHIT!!!!If you need clarification on anything , please ask!!!
>That's because you had to be assinine and make the "sex" comment. Actually, what I have noticed about you is that you will make tons of bullshit posts on my blog - but if there is a hint of challenge on yours you freak out. Its cool though - just typical.
Imara always has to moderate and put you in check.
Goldi, there is a time to bullshit and there is a time to be serious!!Stop shucking and jiving turkey!!!
soundboyz, there is no Al Gore Lock Box for Social Security, never has been and the money has never been put aside, it is in the general budget money.
There is absolutely nothing good about a program that you are forced at gunpoint to contribute to, and get a paltry sum on your investment. If you would crunch some numbers on average life expectancy and the payout from my son's contributions, you would quickly realize that it is a whopping failure.
Even FDR stated that the program would have to be phased out. Now Leftists maintain that the program is supposed to last forever.
>soundboyz, there is no Al Gore Lock Box for Social Security, never has been and the money has never been put aside, it is in the general budget money.
two dogs, why do you keep putting words in my mouth!!!!!!!!!!? I NEVER said that there WAS a "LOCK BOX"!!!!!!!!I said: "If the greedy republicans could understand the concept of a "LOCK BOX" and leave money designated for Social Security for that purpose only, then the program would not be in jeopardy!!!"
that's the PROBLEM!!!If they understood that money designated for SOCIAL SECURITY should be kept separate from everything else and not used to fund unnecessary wars and shit like that , then there would be plenty of money left in the program!!!!!!
LISTEN, don't respond to me anymore!!!!I see you're STILL trying to make me look stupid!!!!I never said SHIT about there being a "LOCK BOX"!!!!I spoke about the concept , just as Al Gore DID!!!!!!
You are really starting to PISS ME OFF!!!You can correspond with Imara, leave me the fuck alone!!!!!!
> Something is going dreadfully wrong here.
Imara, I have had it with this condescending Bullshit!!!!Everything I write , this guy finds some way to try and make me look stupid!!!!I NEVER said that there was a "LOCK BOX"!!!!I commented on the "concept" as did Al Gore!
Imara, it can be like old times when white men only addressed the black woman of the house and disrespected and ignore the man!!!I refuse to be treated as if I am some dumb fool!!!!Right, like I really thought there was a "LOCK BOX" because I heard it mentioned somewhere!!!I don't know what it means, or what the whole thing is about, but I am a dumb nigger , so I will just say that there is one!!!
See, if blacks would stop idolizing Biggie and Tupac, maybe they would know that there wasn't such a thing as a "LOCK BOX"!!!!
>Soundboyz: Celebrities need to realize the impact they have on society especially the youth. Tupac is part of the Shakur clan, when he finally realized it was time to stop thuggin' and use some knowledge it was too late.
Goldi, thanks for the comment. It was meant to be sarcastic!!!Someone once wrote that comment about black people in general!!!!I found it rather insulting , considering that the person that wrote it is WHITE, and I don't like Tupac OR Biggie!!!!!
Hang in there Soundboyz your doing OK
imara said "but I only hope to learn and spread some knowledge from blogging"
Leaning being the most import I think.
imara said "Patches, as a white man over 50, what makes you think and feel the way you do about racism"
Still trying to find an answer or how to answwer this question.
Liberial dummy I guess
Imara, I don't consider anyone less fortunate than me. They might not have the wealth, but I didn't starting out either. I'm still trying to get there.
Oh, and soundboyz, the Democrats had sixty years to establish the lock box. Republicans have just had control of the Congress for eleven. It might take some time to undo sixty-years of stupidity, maybe you ought to get them some more time.
> Hang in there Soundboyz your doing OK
Thanks Patches!!!!!I really appreciate that!!!!:)
>imara said "Patches, as a white man over 50, what makes you think and feel the way you do about racism"
Still trying to find an answer or how to answwer this question.
Liberial dummy I guess
Patches, when I want to read facts and important information, there are two blogs where I KNOW that I can find these things.I always go to your blog, and over to Musafir's musings. I don't consider information to be liberal or conservative, I look at it as facts!
I cannot thank you enough for your contributions, but I will keep saying thank you!
>Soundboyz: Never loose your cool. You know others will challenge you and say crap that is wayyy out of line. FUs do not intellectually counter the matter. If anything - you let the other get the best of you.
Thank you Goldi.Your point is well taken!!!
>Patches: LOL!! Funny how the Rebuplicans revere Jesus, yet would call you a "Liberal Dummy", even though you and Jesus share similar views.
Imara, they were referring to Jesus BEFORE he entered the temple and turned over the tables of the money changers!!!Don't go messing with their MONEY!!!!They need it for important things....like wars !!
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