Sacred Institution?
I would like to open up a channel for discussion on something that has puzzled me for a while. I was recently reminded of it while reading a comment by Two Dogs on Imara's post "Low Down" , about men living a bi- sexual lifestyle. The comment made by Two Dogs had to do with his judgment of people who live together. Two Dogs stated that "living together " doesn't count as a committed relationship. To this, I asked Two Dogs why he felt this way. I also asked him other questions concerning his Catholic faith, such as , if one sleeps with another person out of wedlock , why is it considered a sin? I also asked him if living together was "in sin" , what was the "sin" part of it , the sex? I have yet to receive an answer from him. This is typical when he has no good rhetoric to spew.
I would just like to briefly go over my understanding about the institution of marriage and it's history. If one has belief in the Christian Bible, then one would know and understand the story of Adam and Eve. These two humans were supposedly the first beings to walk the Earth. According to the story, God first made Adam, then fashioned Eve from Adam's rib. They were NOT married , and if the story is to be believed, all human beings came from these two people. This would mean that these two sinners had sex out of wedlock. Also, while searching through the Bible, I came across a list of forbidden sexual relations that one is supposed to adhere to if they believe in Christianity. It lists sex with one's mother, sister , neighbor's wife, aunt, pet , sister in law, daughter in law , daughter , grand children, during menstruation, and with another man as forbidden. No where does it list sex with someone not related to you and not married, of the opposite sex as forbidden. These rules were supposedly dictated by Jesus, who stated that these were his rules , and not the word of God. I must also note that these rules were written for a man to abide by. It does not address a woman's relations because at the time the Bible was written, a woman had no rights and was considered a man's property.
It is also written in the Bible that marriage was an agreement between a man , and his wife's father . This institution was equivalent to slavery in the sense that a man who married a woman, had to trade a set number of cattle and a different assortment of farm animals in order to claim rights to his wife. This was strictly prearranged by the man and the wife's father as a transaction of property. After such a transaction, the woman was then the legal property of the man without consent or approval from the woman. This practice still goes on today in some countries around the world.
Marriage was primarily devised as a way for society to transfer property, protect bloodline, and provide a secure environment for perpetuation of the species. Throughout history, marriage has slowly evolved into what we tend to think of today as marriage. In the past , and even today, marriage was arranged by families for economic reasons, without consent from the two parties. It was in 866 when Pope Nicholas I declared that marriage must be performed with the consent of both parties in order to be valid. Even today , this is not always the case because prearranged marriages are still common in some cultures. Marriage was often performed without witnesses or ceremonies. It wasn't until 1563, when the Council of Trent declared that marriage should be performed in the presence of a priest, and at least two witnesses. There are several different types of marriages that exist . Polygamy, polygyny(my favorite), polyandry, endogamy, exogamy, common law marriage, and monogamy are all types of marriages still practiced today all around the world.
76 Comments:
>Soundboyz, what are your thoughts on married swingers?
Groovy Baby!!!!Yeaaaaahhh!!!!
> Soundboyz, this post has made me question my beliefs on marriage... very interesting, I must say.
Don't worry Imara, you are not considered property in my book. Now go write my posts!!!!!
>If God said, "where two or more are gathered (good name Soundboyz...) in my name, there shall I be, why does getting married in a church please God?
Does this mean........we're MARRIED Imara?...
>Wouldn't that be cheating... ADULTRY?
No, not if both parties are in consent and swap.
>Caallmm down, Soundboyz! We haven't been blogging long enough to be considered "Common Law Bloggers"! You can't tell me what to do... you're not my boss!!
Blogging laws state that "if two parties of the opposite sex are entered into a blog relationship for a period exceeding one month(30 days), then both parties shall be considered for all legal purposes as blog spouses".
We just celebrated our one month anniversary on Friday sweetie!!
>Two Dogs could be your Best Man...
More like my worst nightmare!!!!
>Is it too late to ask for a pre-nuptual blog agreement?
YES!!!! Now , go write some posts!!!
But seriously, why does marriage appeal so much to women when it stemmed from a tradition of treating women like property and slaves?
So, are you telling me that women just want to be treated like a princess for a day and like crap for the rest of the time? I know that not all marriages are crap, but approximately 50% wind up in divorce. Not to mention the rest that are miserable , but stay together for the kids!!!I think roughly about 20% of marriages are healthy working relationships. That's not factual, it's just from my observation!!!
> Check this out: Swinger Diary
Imara, DON'T go looking at that crap!!!!!!!
NZYME!!!!!!!!This is the second warning!!!!!!One more and I'm going to ban that IP!!!!!!!
Now, can we have discussions that pertain to the topic!!Please!!!!
>I checked out the link... my, my, my! Swinging is not for me, but it does sound interesting!
I just KNEW this was going to go there!!!People , let's be grown up about things and cut out this immature stuff!!!!I knew Nzyme was out to corrupt you Imara!!!
OK .....I see where it relates to the topic ......KIND OF.....but i'm keeping a close eye on you two. Damn, you can't even have blog girlfriends hanging with your blog wife!!
I don't know if any of you saw Nanny 911 yesterday. It was a perfect example of how a marriage can go from something good , to something awful. I was happy with the way it ended because it shows that behind every problem, lies a solution. It also showed me that no matter how bad a situation looks, it can be resolved in a kind and loving way.
When people have unresolved issues and they bring them into a marriage, it only makes things worse!!!Nzyme, I wonder if that's what happened in your case? You both might of had unresolved issues and brought them into the marriage.
>There has been a hole in my life since he left,
Isn't that what Dolphie is for?
Nzyme, would you get married again? Why or why not?
Okay, here is/are my two cents, and that is probably the value that y'all will assign to it.
Marriage is a covenant between two people that is witnessed by the families, friends, and performed in the sight of G_d by a man of the cloth. For me, and people that share my faith, we see this as the beginning of the relationship. Even though Carla and I lived together before we married, things were changed by the ceremony. It deepened my devotion to her and made everything that we did together even more special than it was before.
Today, is the one year anniversary of her death and I spent a few minutes this morning looking at our wedding album. Damn.
As far as the living in sin is concerned, yes sex out of marriage is a sin to me. Yes, I did it and for the most part I do not regret being with Carla in that way. The sex that I do regret occurred with the nameless, faceless many that I used in my youth. I wasted a good part of what I had that was uniquely mine to share with the woman that had everything that was mine to give. Sorry, if that is hard to understand.
>Ok, I was saving this for National Coming Out Day, but I guess I'll have to spill the beans early!! I am bisexual,
Hey Nzyme, it's normal....I buy sex all the time too!!!!
>I haven't seen this show, but I hear it's funny... I heard there haven't been any black families on it yet. I wonder why...
Imara.........you know Damn well that no black family is going to have some British folks all up in their bidness!!!!
> It deepened my devotion to her and made everything that we did together even more special than it was before.
How????I always get this same crap about marriage. I can never get a man to fully explain what it means or how it's different. They always come up with the , duhhh....I don't know....she wanted it, or the, it's something you have to experience crap!!!
Maybe the man just gets caught up in the emotions of the ceremony, and thus has a touching experience. Then, when it wears off and the reality sets in, nothing is different except they're now thousands of dollars in debt and they have nothing to show for it except some wedding photos and overpriced wedding bands!!!
I'm going over to Two Dogs NOW!!!!!He promised some pictures!!!!!
> I was invited to join one in Houston, TX but I haven't participated yet. Maybe I'll invite the ex...
UUUUhhhhmmmm....Nzyme, don't you think that maybe you might want to have a one on one with your ex before going to one of these places. I'm just saying, maybe you two might want to catch up on old times or stuff like that.....just a thought!!!
Yes to the pictures. I will share the most bestest minute of my entire life with you thugs. I hope you find as much joy in the pictures as I do.
soundboyz, what I went through during and after the ceremony was not really "feelings" but more a profound sense of duty and honor. I say that it made my life more meaningful because I proved that I was in the relationship for the long haul and that nothing would or could change that. Love is not necessarily a feeling, but more of an action that you make a definite decision on every day and with time becomes more of something else that I can't quite describe, but dammit I wish that I could.
Thanks Nzyme, I know that you know what I'm talking about even if I can't really say what it is that I mean. And yes, soundboyz, I know that I am making your point for you.
>Love is not necessarily a feeling, but more of an action that you make a definite decision on every day and with time becomes more of something else that I can't quite describe, but dammit I wish that I could.
Imara, don't be so Gullible , where the hell do you think Ol' TWo Dogs got it from!!!!!!Females are sooooo Gullible !!!!
Cut the mushy shit and post the pics Dogs!!!!!
>soundboyz, what I went through during and after the ceremony was not really "feelings" but more a profound sense of duty and honor
Yea.....RRRRiiiighttt.Listen, I felt this same sense of "duty and honor" when I took the oath to serve this country. Now that i'm out, I don't feel a deep sense of love or any other shit....except pride that I did serve.See, you can get that sense from other things, so marriage is like enlisting in the military, it gives you a sense of duty and honor and great pride to wear the uniform/ring. Then , you go through years of hell and torture where you wished you never enlisted in the first place!!!!You are made to do things you don't want to do. Then, ever so often, you're given the opportunity to either sign on for longer , or get the hell out!!!Some stay and become lifers, some get as far away from that shit as possible!!!!
Imara, I do follow that exact same reasoning. I think that it might have been something that my preist said when Carla and I were going to the pre-marital class thing that our church made us attend. Sorry, I haven't read all the comments, I have to try to do some work occassionally.
And just to clarify, love IS a feeling or emotion!!!!!Commitment is the thing where you make a conscious decision to do something or to not do something!!!!!I made a commitment to Uncle Sam, that was a conscious decision to serve, that didn't mean that I loved him!!!!
But, I could say that to get all the women !!!!Two Dogs!!!!Personally, I think you are a fraud!!!!!!!I see no pictures. All I hear is some mushy Harlequin romance type Dr. Phil type Oprah type Dear Abby type bullshit!!!!
> Imara, I do follow that exact same reasoning. I think that it might have been something that my preist said when Carla and I were going to the pre-marital class thing that our church made us attend. Sorry, I haven't read all the comments, I have to try to do some work occassionally.
Bullshit!!!!!!Imara actually wrote this on the post about the "Down Low" , so you did see it !!!!You are so full of it, it's real funny Dogs!!!!You can play that emotional shit with the women, but you can't fool me with that shit!!!!!!
Sorry you think that, soundboyz.
> Sorry you think that, soundboyz.
Aaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwww SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHIIITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!
So sorry Two Dogs. I don't mean to hurt your feelings. Oh, sorry , not your "feelings" but more of an action that you make a definite decision on every day and with time becomes more of something else that I can't quite describe, but dammit I wish that I could. Dammit......I wish I could too!!!!Now post some Damn pics, can you do that?
Wait.....let me guess.......He's so busy , he hasn't had a chance to do it. Wait.....I got it , better yet for you ladies, I don't think I am fully ready to share this precious and wonderful time of my life. Maybe when I have let enough time pass where I can stand the pain and learn to deal with the miraculous love we once shared......
Two Dogs, I am sorry for your loss, and that's no bull!!!!!!
soundboyz, I am tough, bring it. You know that it's not a problem.
Imara, at this point in time, I am concentrating on getting my kid through high school and allowing myself enough time to get to a point where I can function normally again. I can't say for sure what the future holds and I really haven't thought about remarrying. Not ruling it out though, call me and we'll see.
As far as the pictures are concerned, yes they will be up today.
Oh, I'm not right of center, I AM THE CENTER. Not only of the political spectrum, but also of the universe.
>allowing myself enough time to get to a point where I can function normally again.
Right.....We don't have that kind of time!!!!You seem to be getting along well with Heyonce. Is his picture going to be up as well?
> Oh, I'm not right of center, I AM THE CENTER. Not only of the political spectrum, but also of the universe.
Oh,OK!!!! That explains why you always talk from UrAnus!!!!
Two Dogs is trying the old bait and switch. He is claiming center when he knows he's really right of center!!!Then he claims everyone else as extremists!
I claimed the center because I was tired of Lefists claiming the center. I figure that I am a little more normal than Kerry, Boxer, Reid, and Dean. So, I would offer that since they claim to be moderates, so would I.
The problem with that is "you" claim to be more normal. You can claim to be whatever you like!The fact is that you are conservative, or you pretend to be .
All
My first date with my wife was in Oct. 1963. We were married in Oct. 1965 (after the required tour(s) of duty in Vietnam with the US Air Force.) In all the years since neither one of us have had, wanted, or needed anyone else. This make me an expert on marriage? No. This make me a very lucky dog, Oh Yeah.
Loving someone and shacking up does not compute with me.
Common law is not marriage but a legal deal.
Loving someone and getting married computes and the marriage ceremony is a statement of commitment. Actually commitment is a poor choice of words, marriage is more then commitment. Describing what is more then commitment, would take 2 or 3 books of a few thousand pages each.
There is no room for a third party in a marriage unless it’s children. (Children are great and grandchildren may be greater still.)
Sex is important in a marriage but not all important.
Religion? My wife is very religious but I’m not religious at all, agnostic at best. (I went through a religious ceremony for my wife, but then I would go to hell for her too.)
When I watch young people today going through a marriage ceremony, it appears to me like Christmas; it’s all about the presents/party not any commitment. Most of the young people have already been living together so what’s left but to party?
Anyway that’s my 2 cents on this subject.
Thanks Patches,
It is good to hear from someone with extensive first hand knowledge on the subject. I think that your experience does make you somewhat of an expert. After all , marriage is something that is very easy to get into , yet very hard to maintain. I do understand your views on marriage, but I still get that "elusive" feeling about the reason or the explanation .You stated that to explain it would fit into 2 or 3 books of a few thousand pages. I often get these types of "vague" descriptions when I ask men about marriage. Surely, it cannot be that complicated?
What i'm trying to say is, I have yet to get a clear reason or explanation for marriage, other than the cliche, you can't understand unless you are in it, or it's beyond words. Is it because marriage is what women want and when a man agrees to it , the woman becomes emotionally grateful? I don't know what could possibly happen different , other than the legal status and/or the social status?
Patches, that is worth far more than two cents to me. I'm reading that you are coming up on forty years of wedded bliss? Congrats, I salute.
Two Dogs
You should know there is no center to the universe. So you may be in a center but its not the universe, you better look around you may be in the center of s*** and there is no left or rightin s*** :)
> Two Dogs
You should know there is no center to the universe. So you may be in a center but its not the universe, you better look around you may be in the center of s*** and there is no left or rightin s*** :)
LOL!!!!!!!!I've been thinking the same thing ever since I saw Two Dogs post this on his blog!!!!Although, I was thinking of something worse than S***!!!You're the center alright Two Dogs!!!!!!The center of a A**H@%e!!
^sorry, I meant "an"
Soundboyz
There are lots of things in this world that defy explanations, Love being one of the first and UFOs being one of the last. Take hunting, how can one love what one hunts and kills?
Ok gotta go, that wife of 40 yrs is telling me if I want to make it 41 I better get off this computer and do something constructive.
LOL!!!!!!You know Patches , strangely enough, from that comment , I think I understand what love is all about!!!
I want you to know that I value your opinions and I respect your wisdom. I know that these things can only come with time and experience.
Hello Goldi,
Nice of you to stop by. I was starting to worry about you . I thought maybe one of your men was holding you ransom for $1.37. Anyway, as usual, you have to go there and show your A** on national Blogger. You know damn well you can't deal with one man, much less several!!
Something tells me your jewelry business is just a front for a dominatrix dungeon!!
The pictures are on my blog. Kiss my ass.
And no matter what you say patches, congratulations on 40 years of marriage. I salute.
I'll buy the tapes as long as they have Midnight Train to Georgia on 'em. Damn I love that song.
I think that I will pass on the glass dildos, thanks for asking though. However, the Slip 'N Slyde lubricant sounds freaky.
> The pictures are on my blog. Kiss my ass.
I will do no such thing!!!!
>Soundboyz - Why is it that if a woman is assertive she is a dominatrix or b**** (which means Babe In Total Control of Herself).
Wow, It must be pick on Soundboyz day today!!!!I DID not call you a B*$@%, no matter what it translates into!! Don't accuse me of calling you that, I merely suggested that you ran a Dominatrix Dungeon. What's so wrong about that?
>And plus if I score a couple of phone numbers after waxing philosophic.....so what!
What the HELL is "waxing philosophic"?
Are you running a Dominatrix ring or not?
>and most can only combat her strong and powerful energy by calling her a b*tch.
Imara, I didn't call anybody a B*#%H!!!!!
>Could it be that Soundboyz has been whipped, chained, spanked, and asked, "Who's your Mama?" against his will? Post Traumatic Sex Disorder?? If so, there's hope, sir. You CAN get over this and have a normal sex life again. For only $19.99, I'll send you my new self-help series entitled CUT THE SHIT. Let a sista know if you're interested...
No thanks.....
> Imara - I see b**** all the time on t-shirts.
I DIDN'TCALL ANYONE A BITCH!!!
>So, for an additional $16.99, would you like me to throw in my new self-love series entitled Dolphin Luv? This purchase entitles you to a FREE bottle of Slip'N Slyde lubricant and a copy of Nzyme's Valentine Jamz mixtape....no Midnight Train To Georgia, but guaranteed to please!! No POB's, COD's, or SASE's!!
NO THANKS!!!!!
>No, Nzyme, I don't need the tapes. I know how to deal with people when they call me a b*tch... I just smile and take it as a compliment.
I DID NOT CALL ANYONE A BITCH!!!!!!!!!
> >Imara, pardon me. I thought that was Soundboyz making that comment.
FOR THE LAST TIME.......I DID NOT CALL ANYONE A BITCH!!!!!!!NOW YOU ALL ARE COMMENTING FOR ME!!!!!!!!!!!$*TCH#S!!!
Great song, simply beautiful. You sing it well, Nzyme.
>I was speaking in "general" terms, Soundboyz. Not implying that you called her a b*tch!
Well, find the "general" that called her a B*tch and imply that he did it!
> Soundboyz, I think we should get a cut of Nzymes' profits, don't you? I mean, she is using our forum to sell her goods! LOL!!
I know !!!What's up with that? She sure is in a selling mood!!I hope she is paying taxes on that stuff, because I don't want Uncle Sam coming here looking for his cut!!!
The funny thing about that" MIdnight Train to Georgia" is that my parents owned the 45 and still to this day I can remember that purple label with the scary Buddah on it . It used to scare the crap out of me!! I think it still does!!!
I'm scared to go to your blog, too much talk about strap ons and the like. There's probably a big glass wholphin with a belt on it on the first page.
AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!SHIT!!!!!!!
Nzyme!!!!!!!!!That was MEAN!!!!!!!! I just told you that I was afraid of that !!!!!!!You are cruel!!!!!!!!!!That wasn't FUNNY!!!!!!
I have actually laughed for the first time in a couple of days over this shit. Here's soundboyz in his Supathug costume.....
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-2/112270/BlackSuperman.jpeg
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!That was the funniest shit EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I rolled so hard , I cried!!!!!!!!OK TWo Dogs , you got that one!!!!!
I am here for your entertainment. I'll be here all week.
Oh, and I was reminded of a joke: What is the penalty for polygamy in Mississippi?
What Two Dogs?
Two wives. Ha!
Ha Ha!
Hey , what do you call a married woman in Mississippi?
...........
Your big fat SISTER!!!!!!!!!
Imara, Leave Pastor Steve alone, he has bigger sinners than you to reach out to!!!
Although, I don't find Pastor Steve's reasons so convinsing!!!
>I think my point in responding to your post was that you seem to be implying that anything can be called a marriage. If anything can be something than by definition that something (in this case marriage) is really meaningless. I think you realize that because that appears to be the conclusion that you have come to.
Pastor Steve, you can have different marriages.Several forms of marriages are listed on this post!! You just admitted that marriage was not defined in the Bible, and it is left up to the state to govern marriage. So, if a state says that you are legally married in this state if you live together for 7 years or so, doesn't that make it as legitimate as say, someone who goes to Vegas and gets married in a 24 hour phone booth? If the state of Vegas allows marriage to be performed by online pastors, then why should one form of marriage be considered more "right" than the other?
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