Where Two Or More Are Gathered..........

This is the place where all are welcome to join in and engage in spiritual, uplifting and intellectual conversation.Please do join us,won't you.....

Thursday, April 14, 2005

Step Two



On March 23, 2005 , I began to tackle the huge and seemingly insurmountable task of trying to bring to light , the subject of slavery and it's consequences .In a post titled "Step One" , I used a method based loosely on AA's(Alcoholics Anonymous)Twelve Step program in order to slowly deal with the sobering reality of the massive scale of slavery and all of it's ramifications. In that first post, I merely brought up the issue and included a diagram of a slave ship that was used to transport "human cargo" from the Coast of Africa , to the Americas. That first step was only to introduce the reality of what was an atrocity of grave proportions. In this post, I will move to step two, in which I will include some of the facts and statistics about this unimaginable horror. Hopefully, this second step will move this subject from a state of denial, to a stage of acceptance , or a "surrender" to the stark reality of what was slavery.

Although slavery "officially" began in America in 1619 , when the first Dutch trader exchanged a cargo of slaves for food in Jamestown ,Virginia, the Trans-Atlantic slave trade had been going on since the early 1500. Portugal and Spain were the two countries responsible for dominating the early slave trade to South America and the Caribbeans. They were later joined by England , who began it's involvement in 1562 , when Sir John Hawkins became the first Englishman to transport slaves to the New World. These ventures were commonly backed by royalty such as Queen Elizabeth and Charles II. The slave trade was considered a highly profitable venture and quickly became essential for these nations to fund and supply their colonialism efforts in the New World.

In 1969 , Phillip Curtin conducted a study called "The Atlantic Slave Trade: A Census" in which he determined the number of blacks transported across the Atlantic at 8 million. There have been other , more accurate studies, in which the number of slaves that reached the Americas was calculated to be between 10 - 15 million. These numbers only dealt with the slaves that survived Middle Passage. It is also estimated that half the amount of slaves did not survive, thus increasing the number of total slaves involved at around 20-30 million .Yet, because documents were often lost or non existent, and little or no records were kept of the dead slaves that were thrown into the ocean , some have put the number even higher at around 80-100 million .


It is impossible to determine an accurate figure of just how many slaves were taken from Africa and brought to the Americas, but the numbers, be it conservative or liberal, cannot fully convey the horror and brutal treatment these human beings had to endure. If they were fortunate enough to survive the inhumane conditions of Middle Passage , unspeakable horrors and torture awaited them when they arrived in the Americas .

I hope that everyone who reads this post will just stop and take one minute to think about what it must have been like to be a slave in those times. The fear and terror that they must have felt, the pain and torture that they must have endured. The humiliation and helplessness they surely felt as a result of being captured and treated like animals. I ask that you simply "surrender" one minute of your time in order to reflect on what it must have meant to be a slave during this era. You can read more about slavery and the Middle Passage from here. (Thank you Nzyme).

71 Comments:

Blogger Imara said...

Soundboyz, another powerful and moving post.

I hope that everyone will heed your advice and take just one minute to ponder the enormous atrocity that was committed because of greed. Truly, no God-fearing humans could have committed such an egregious act against other humans.

Thu Apr 14, 10:36:00 AM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

Thank you Imara, I appreciate that.

Thu Apr 14, 11:05:00 AM 2005  
Blogger Geekbird said...

Geekbird has surrendered his minute. What I hate most is that people today don't feel there are still social injustices today that stem from those days of slavery. you hear shit like "oh, that was hundreds of years ago, and segregation was so long ago". Are you kidding? people are so gotdamn blind. Plus, the end of segregation was only about 50 years ago. Just cuz both slavery and segregation are not around doesnt mean that the same thoughts of racism and injustice arent in the minds of people today. Thoughts, morals, and beliefs are handed down generation after generation.

Thu Apr 14, 11:29:00 AM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

Yea.....I know exactly what you speak of Geekbird. Then , there are the ones who talk of their plight, or of their ancestor's plight, as if that negates anything concerning slavery. I just want people to try and grasp it. I know they cannot because it's so unthinkable and so cruel. I think if people were forced to deal with the truth about slavery , racism , segregation and all of their effects, it would be hard to discredit what it has meant in terms of blacks and their place in America. I think folks after the baby boomers, don't even think these things had any bearing on life now!!!I think people watch MTV Cribs and sees blacks that have become successful in America and think everything's great, or they even become jealous and resentful because they hear of blacks benefitting from affermative action. They really don't understand the big picture, and chances are, they don't care to either.

Thu Apr 14, 11:47:00 AM 2005  
Blogger Oddybobo said...

OT, with what weapon? I am fully trained in the use of an arsenal of weapons. I compete in shooting competitions and shoot for fun, so, with what weapon?

Thu Apr 14, 11:51:00 AM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

M16 A1 semi automatic , air cooled , etc.The same type that I routinely used to qualify as "Expert" while serving in the U.S. Army!!!! Hell, we can use whatever, as long as I get to zero my weapon!!No scopes, only sights!!!

Thu Apr 14, 11:58:00 AM 2005  
Blogger Imara said...

Oddybobo, nice to see you've stopped by! I noticed that you start some of your comments with "OT", curious... what does that mean?

Thu Apr 14, 12:12:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Imara said...

>Thoughts, morals, and beliefs are handed down generation after generation.

Instead of mainstream society slamming Blacks for their behavior all the time, they should take this very sentiment into account. When someone is FORCED to be subserviant, treated less than human, not allowed access to any type of education, along with a host of other ills for hundreds of years, they lose the instictual ability to productively function in society. Especially a society that targets them to fail.

Jesse Jackson raised a very profound argument... why is it that, in sports where the playing field is equal, blacks dominate? This is proof that when given the fair chance to compete, they will strive, and in most cases, out perform their opponent.

Thu Apr 14, 12:22:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

Exactly Imara, I think some people are just jealous and bitter because dispite the history of cruelty, opression, racism , segregation and bigotry, blacks are still on MTV Cribs, chillin. This pisses a lot of whites off because they desperately want these things and know that blacks will out perform them if given a fair chance. Hell, they're outperforming them anyway!!However , this is not the norm and steps should be taken in order to "level the playing field". I know that whites hate to hear that because it means that junior might not make the team this semester!

Thu Apr 14, 12:31:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Imara said...

Sounds like motivation to oppress a group of people to me! It's amazing the medical, mathematical, astrological, and spiritual knowledge that Africans had prior to being stolen from their land. Even many of the inventions that we take for granted today, were invented by black people, but a lot of them don't get the proper credit, because they weren't consider human beings.

Thu Apr 14, 01:16:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Goldi said...

preaching to the choir...

it is very important to acknowledge the impacts of slavery and how it is alive and well today in Amerikkka.

it is also the duty of those of us who know the truth to reach out and empower our brothers and sisters. there are a LOT of people who walk through life blindfolded.

"A people with out the knowledge of its history, is like a tree without roots"
- The Honorable Marcus Mosiah Garvey.

"Truth is the Light, may it shine on you".
- Unknown

we must use Black Power, Brown Power, Yellow Power and Red Power to CRUSH the oppressive imperialistic white power.

Thu Apr 14, 01:28:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Geekbird said...

and Geekbird power

Thu Apr 14, 01:38:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Two Dogs said...

I gotta say that using the MTV cribs argument is probably not in the best interests of your debate. Have you ever listened to most of the crap on that show? Most of these folks are NOT Russell Simmons. They sound like morons. Go to Graceland and look what money and absolutely no intelligence gets you. Are these success stories? Do they elevate the Black race or create an attitude that education is unimportant, because they don't sound educated.

Personally I think that the majority of the publicized music personalities and athletes should be taught not to speak. The overwhelming lack of education probably does more to keep the poor folks down. As long as I think that there is a chance that I can make mad money playing ball, why do I need to study? Point in case would be Steve McNair. Even with a college degree from Alcorn, the Titans had to hire a speech coach so he could conduct interviews.

And as Imara points out, there have been inventions produced by Blacks that are uncredited. How about putting some of those forward and focusing on these folks other than musicians and jocks.

My question is why if a student comes to school in the same mold as Steve Erkel does he get acused of acting white? Why do the other kids punish him/her for succeeding academically?

Thu Apr 14, 01:38:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

^ You tell them Sistah Soldier!!!!!

Seriously Goldi, your words are powerful. They come roaring off the page and just inspires me. I know it sounds corny, but it's true. I get down sometimes because I know the struggle and the forces that blacks are up against, and a lot of them could care less!!!Some make it easy for systematic opression!!It is enough to cause one to lose hope, but when I read comments like yours and Imara's, my spirit gets uplifted with strength to continue to fight.

Thu Apr 14, 01:41:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Two Dogs said...

>CRUSH the oppressive imperialistic white power

And as far as Goldi's comments: The white power has no bearing on what I accomplish, I do not have to destroy the white man to succeed. Success is not limited to a certain number of people. And personally, I want more and more people to succeed, it makes my competition and my game better.

Tiger Woods elevated the game of golf so much that everyone had to retrain themselves how to play the game. When they did that, Tiger didn't win every tournament anymore but he kept gettinig better.

Thu Apr 14, 01:42:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

> ^ You tell them Sistah Soldier!!!!!

I meant Goldi.....and you too Two Dogs!!

Listen , Two Dogs, i'm not using folks from MTV Cribs as role models, I was just using them to point out the fact that these are the ones that are highlighted in the media, and whites are UPSET!!Because Bow Wow can rap , does not make him a role model. I think we all agree on that. However, Bow Wow and other black celebrities are deceiving the general public that blacks are fine and don't suffer any ill effects of everything I mentioned previous.

Thu Apr 14, 01:48:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

>Tiger Woods elevated the game of golf so much that everyone had to retrain themselves how to play the game. When they did that, Tiger didn't win every tournament anymore but he kept gettinig better.

Again, you are using an athlete to illustrate your point. Again, in sports, the field is even, so nobody can deny that Tiger hit the damn ball 374 yds.In the real world, you can be snubbed at your company, your ideas can be stolen and not given credit for. You can face racism and opression. You can face the "glass ceiling". Everyone saw Tiger win his 4th green jacket!!!

Thu Apr 14, 01:53:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Two Dogs said...

I guess what I am asking is if the Black community actually views them as success stories?

In my mind, the mainstream Black community has abandoned the true success stories like Dr. Rice, Powell, Thomas, Sowell, etal. These are the people that are scorned.

Thu Apr 14, 01:53:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Two Dogs said...

The Tiger element was not about athletes, but about attitudes. He changed something because he was head and shoulders above the rest. He didn't destroy whitey and they didn't try to destroy him. Everyone got better.

Thu Apr 14, 01:58:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

>n my mind, the mainstream Black community has abandoned the true success stories like Dr. Rice, Powell, Thomas, Sowell, etal. These are the people that are scorned.

Them NIGGERS are SELLOUTS!!!!etal.

Thu Apr 14, 01:58:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

> He didn't destroy whitey and they didn't try to destroy him. Everyone got better.

He did destroy whitey on the Golf course!!!!And they DID try to destroy him!!!Tiger Woods faces racism all the time, and he's rich and famous.He has received death threats as well as fans who intentionally try to distract him.


And you had to use an athlete or a n entertainer because those two fields are measured in defifitive terms.....record sales, goals, birdies...etal !!!

Thu Apr 14, 02:02:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Imara said...

>Tiger Woods elevated the game of golf so much that everyone had to retrain themselves how to play the game.

Yes, everyone had to step up their game, but they also changed the rules of the game in order to slow Tiger's progress! All of a sudden, 3 par holes became 4 par, and so on.

Thu Apr 14, 02:04:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

>Yes, everyone had to step up their game, but they also changed the rules of the game in order to slow Tiger's progress! All of a sudden, 3 par holes became 4 par, and so on.

Oh....my.....Goodness.....!!!!!

Thu Apr 14, 02:08:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Geekbird said...

>3 par holes became 4 par

just on a technical basis, it doesn't matter if they change the par number on a hole.

Thu Apr 14, 02:09:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

Two Dogs is going to have to check with the Republican manual for this one!!!!

Thu Apr 14, 02:10:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

> >3 par holes became 4 par
Geekbird, I think we all know what the lady meant. They lenghtened the holes as to take away Tigers God given advantages!!!!You know what Imara meant.

Thu Apr 14, 02:12:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Nzyme said...

Middle Passage


As this ship rocks, I sigh, I cry
In this dark hole, I sigh, I cry
I can't shriek, can't scream
Terror frozen like a fist
Tight in my throat
But I can sigh, I can silently cry
For the babe I suckeled at home
Trampled underneath chasing feet
Stalking me and my sister through the night
Wrenched from my arms, I cry, I sigh
I can't yell and gnash my teeth
No room, no light
I can't raise my hands to the sky
Asking Allah WHHHHHY, WHHHHY?
Hands chained, body naked, I sigh, I cry
I sigh, I cry for my little sister
She died...too weak too hurt, too young
Too hungry to survive this dark Hell
But I cry, I sigh
My milk dried, no babe to suckle,
No sister to comfort,
No hope, no sun, no life
Just the rolling, the waves crashing
Already weakened stomach churning
Turning, I cry, I sigh
No water left for tears, I sigh, I sigh
Allah will I make it, I sigh, I sigh
Where is my babe, is she warm is she safe
Can I go to her, I sigh, I sigh
No air in this dank, dark place
Just moans, murmurs, cries, sighs
No love in this dark place
Left that at home, I sigh, I sigh
Too weak to sigh...No tears to cry...
I die.


**The dying continues today....just a different, slower kind...

Thu Apr 14, 02:21:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Geekbird said...

>They lenghtened the holes as to take away Tigers God given advantages

I'm not speaking about race or issues at all. I'm a sports nerd so i'm speaking about the technicalities of golf with my point. Even if they do make the whole farther as you were saying to slow down tiger it would be farther for everyone else, making it harder for them. but, i'm on a complete tangent with this. Continue with the issue at hand people

Thu Apr 14, 02:26:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Imara said...

>You know what Imara meant.

Thank you, Soundboyz! That is exactly what I meant. They couldn't take that he was shattering records long held by white men.

Thu Apr 14, 02:39:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Imara said...

>Even if they do make the whole farther as you were saying to slow down tiger it would be farther for everyone else, making it harder for them.

Geekbird, sometimes it's more important to slow the progress of your advisory, then to beat them.

Thu Apr 14, 02:41:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

Geekbird, by lenghtening the hole just enough so that Tiger doesn't have a shot at eagle , they allow the rest of the field to "lay up" giving them an equal shot at birdie.You should know this as a Geekbird.

Thu Apr 14, 02:42:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Imara said...

Soundboyz, you sound like you play golf? I'm just learning.

Thu Apr 14, 02:45:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

> Soundboyz, you sound like you play golf? I'm just learning

A little bit...However , I do like to watch, especially if Tiger is on the prowl.

Thu Apr 14, 02:48:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

Wait.....I cannot go on without commenting on Nzyme's poem. That has got to be one of the most moving and saddest poems that I have ever read. Don't tell me that you wrote that Nzyme , because if you did, seriously, you are an EXCELLENT writer! That was wonderful, so full of emotion.Thank you , and thanks again for that link!!

Thu Apr 14, 02:52:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Imara said...

>I do like to watch, especially if Tiger is on the prowl.

I know this is off topic, but he almost gave me a heart attack watching him play at the Masters (funny how it's called the "Masters" and it's played on a course that up until very recently did't allow blacks as members!) Anyway... I hate when he goes for the drama! A few times it has cost him.

Thu Apr 14, 02:52:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

Imara, I would have to step in here and remind you that this a topic about slavery not about golf , or Tiger Woods, or the Masters. Although your point about the Masters is well taken(and funny), I will have to step in and redirect this post back on topic.

I am merely checking my people. Otherwise they will get all off into talking about sports, music , food and celebrity gossip. If left unchecked , they might even start selling weed on here.

Thu Apr 14, 03:00:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

>Anyway... I hate when he goes for the drama! A few times it has cost him.

BTW Imara....I don't think he purposely goes for the drama! You're making him sound like a nail salon technician!!

Thu Apr 14, 03:03:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Imara said...

^LOL!! Point taken, Soundboyz. I could do without the weed and the gossip, truth be told.

Thu Apr 14, 03:05:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Imara said...

>I don't think he purposely goes for the drama! You're making him sound like a nail salon technician!!

I thought we were to stick to the topic at hand! LOL!!

... And have you seen Tiger! He is the biggest "prima-donna" going. I love him and all, but he needs to man-up!

Thu Apr 14, 03:08:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Two Dogs said...

On the making the holes longer, it only helped Tiger. That was stupid. When you are already the longest hitter on tour, making fairways longer only benefits you.

Thu Apr 14, 03:21:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Imara said...

Can we do as Soundboyz said and get back to topic, pleeesse! There is a more important issue at hand...

Thu Apr 14, 03:25:00 PM 2005  
Blogger LoveLenny said...

I read a few books, I believe there are only two in the series... "I Was Born a Slave"
They are stories by individuals who escaped or were freed from slavery & lived to tell about it. I don't know if you've read these, but slavery is a topic that is very near to my soul & the books were very enlightening...also not for the faint of heart. The reality of it was freeing in a way that you can't get from historical writings that don't have firsthand experience of the events that took place. I really am glad I found your blog. Thanks for posting on the subject!

Thu Apr 14, 03:30:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Two Dogs said...

And Tiger has pumped up, just because he's not covered in tattoos and body piercings doesn't make him a sissy. Ans even though golf is primarily a white man's sport here's the Black story. 1899: George Grant invents golf tee
1920's: John Shippen is ranked as high as number even in the world

The Master's does not have a racial contoctation, it simply means the best in the game. Only someone who wins a tournament the year before and past Major winners are eligible. Majors include the two main amateur tournaments.

Lee Elder was the first to qualify under the rules for 1975 Masters Tournament. He also said and this is damn huge to this argument: I DON'T WANT TO BE INVITED JUST BECAUSE I'M BLACK. I JUST WANT TO BE A PLAYER.

Thu Apr 14, 03:31:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

>That was stupid. When you are already the longest hitter on tour, making fairways longer only benefits you.

O.K. let me break this down for the last time. If you have a par 4 that was 443 yds, tiger had a legitamite shot at birdie by hitting a long drive say about 350 yds, thus leaving him with a wedge to the hole and a legitamate shot at eagle , and a definite birdie. If you make that same hole 475 yds, you then force him to have to hit a long drive , then a fairway wood or low iron to get to the green , then giving him only a chance at birdie , like the rest of those numbnuts only hitting 250yds max.

Thu Apr 14, 03:38:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

>I DON'T WANT TO BE INVITED JUST BECAUSE I'M BLACK. I JUST WANT TO BE A PLAYER.

Right , what black person doesn't just want to be a player.......that came out wrong. What i'm saying is that racism isn't practiced by blacks , so the fact that blacks want to be treated equally is only natural. When Fuzzy Zoeller stops cracking racial remarks, then we are making progress!!

Thu Apr 14, 03:43:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

>O.K. let me break this down for the last time. If you have a par 4 that was 443 yds, tiger had a legitamite shot at birdie

Sorry I meant eagle.

Thu Apr 14, 03:45:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

Lovelenny, Thanks for stopping by and I am happy that you found something of interest here. I will be sure to drop by your place to say hello. I will also look into your suggested readings. Slavery is also a subject that is very important to me as well.

Thu Apr 14, 03:50:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

>Ans even though golf is primarily a white man's sport here's the Black story.

Yea....we know Two Dogs, there were plenty of great black golfers. Golf just got a bad rap because someone forgot to tip a black caddy.......

Thu Apr 14, 03:52:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Two Dogs said...

soundboyz on the yardage thing, you are not adding right. On the tour, a par four of 475 yards to make eagle, you would have to drive the green and one putt for a two. Tiger ain't done that with any regularity and neither has any other golfer.

The eagle comes into play when you have a 600 yard par five. Tiger averages 320 off the tee this year, others are hitting it even farther. The PGA had to make the holes longer, but it puts Tiger and the longer hitters at even more of an advantage.

They did try to Tiger-proof Augusta National because it has a reputation as one of the toughest. But the added length made Tiger even more unbeatable, so they toned it down. That's what happened.

And Tiger did not take offense to Fuzzy's comment, the only ones that did were not present. Imean some of Fuzzy's best friends are Black. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Can I touch your hair?

Thu Apr 14, 04:11:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

>soundboyz on the yardage thing, you are not adding right. On the tour, a par four of 475 yards to make eagle, you would have to drive the green and one putt for a two. Tiger ain't done that with any regularity and neither has any other golfer.

I knew you were going to do this shit!!!!That was the scenario for after they lenghten the hole!!!!!

Thu Apr 14, 04:27:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Two Dogs said...

No, you are actually correct in your assumptions that they tried to Tiger proof the course, but you are wrong in the assessment in what it did.

There are very few holes on the tour that are drivable par fours, the place that Tiger was cleaning up was the fives. Lengthening the holes only helped Tiger, like he needed it.

In case you are wondering, yes I do play golf. Yes, I am good. Yea, I got trophies.

Thu Apr 14, 04:48:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

Two Dogs re-read my original comment on this. I did not say he can reach the green in One, I said when it was a short par 4 he would hit a monster drive , then had a shot at a wedge for Eagle , but more importantly, he would have a greater than average shot at birdie. By lengthening the par4&5 , but in my example, par 4, he would have to hit a monster drive , then hit a fairway wood, or long iron , which is harder to control landing on the green as opposed to a loft wedge.... then he had less of a chance for birdie and absolutely no chance at eagle!!

What don't you understand? If you play golf, these are simple concepts to grap, he goes from not being able to use a wedge for his second shot on a par 4 , to having to use a long iron, or fairway wood for a second shot.What the hell!!

It's become painfully obvious Two Dogs, that you just like to argue just for the sake of arguing! Anyway, you are detouring from the topic, as usual!!!

Thu Apr 14, 05:07:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Goldi said...

nzyme - pure talent

soundboyz - your poignant posts have shown me that you have layers maaan or maybe its the strike talking...

two dogs - if you are 25% Native American what is the *ahem* other 75%?

geekbird - GB Power is about world domination
imperialistic forces are about to get a re-education

Thu Apr 14, 06:13:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Two Dogs said...

soundboyz, Tiger is still hitting a shorter iron into the green than most other players. You are making the right point, but you still have to understand, the longer the fairway, the easier it is for the longer hitters. Even though Tiger's strength is actually the short game and putting, he is still one of the longest hitters on the tour.

Goldi, the other 75% is a mixture of white European, if that matters at all. The southerner is usually not tied up in the where your ancestors are from, but rather what you have accomplished.

Thu Apr 14, 06:29:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Goldi said...

i'm not a southerner. ...and for most People of Color ancestry is very important,it is why we are still here. you can't have a future without a past.

Thu Apr 14, 09:09:00 PM 2005  
Blogger Two Dogs said...

Why then must we degrade the others' past to uplift our own? I had this conversation with a very good friend of mine today. I do understand there are some people that research their heritage down to the nth degree. Then there are others who could not care less. The debate that has raged between soundboyz and myself has been one of understanding the differences, and rendering them less important than the similarities.

Does your race make you any more sensitive to emotional pain than mine? I think that sex makes a difference but color? How does my skin color affect the way I conduct business? Is this something that is completely different with the ever increasing darkness of my skin?

If this theory is true, then albinos should be the ones that we turn our hatred towards. They have less pigmentation than anyone else. Ridiculous? Probably, but no more than saying the white man is the root cause of the black man's problems.

Thu Apr 14, 10:57:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

>If this theory is true, then albinos should be the ones that we turn our hatred towards. They have less pigmentation than anyone else. Ridiculous? Probably, but no more than saying the white man is the root cause of the black man's problems.


I laughed my ASS off on this one.Two Dogs, you have taken bullshit to brave new heights!!!

Come on, saying that the white man is the root cause of the black man's problem DOES have merit. It's not like there isn't proof or something!!!Two Dogs, I think I have heard it ALL now!!!

>How does my skin color affect the way I conduct business?

i think that it has more to do with your heritage or history.I think that's what Goldi was eluding to when she said that to know your past is to know your future!!


Two Dogs, I think we just simply cannot ignore what has happened to blacks throughout history! To do so would not only be ignorant, but insulting everything that our ancestors have gone through.I understand your point about not judging people based on skin color, but to ignore the history of what has been done to blacks, is utterly stupid in my opinion.

It's mostly whites that talk about forgetting the past because history puts them in a bad light.If blacks choose to learn their history and arm themselves with the knowledge of what has been done to them,it is because blacks want to be aware of their surroundings and the circumstances that have brought them to this point.

Thu Apr 14, 11:44:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

>soundboyz - your poignant posts have shown me that you have layers maaan or maybe its the strike talking...

Goldi, I thank you for those kind words. However, I see that you have some catching up to do because I have ended my strike a while ago with the help and support of my new love, Dolly.You and her should talk, I'm sure there's a lot she can impart on you about what to say , and how to treat your man(men).

Thu Apr 14, 11:53:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

Two Dogs, I wonder if you were 75%Cherokee and 25% White, would it make a difference on how you view things?


I know it is impossible to answer truthfully because it's hypothetical , but it is a thought provoking question, nonetheless.

Fri Apr 15, 12:04:00 AM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

> Why then must we degrade the others' past to uplift our own?

Two Dogs, you have to try and look at it from the affected people's view and you would realize their question is, "why must others abuse , exploit and degrade us to uplift their own?"

Fri Apr 15, 12:09:00 AM 2005  
Blogger Goldi said...

^ Right on Soundboyz!

Two Dogs - In the (very, very, very) old days albinos were outcasts within traditional People of Color communities. When I say People of Color - I mean those people who are not descendants of the celts, angles, saxons, all germanic and nordic tribes, etc.

But, I am not going to do a "back and forth" with you. You think you are an enlighted individual because you have 25% of a race that the other 75% of you tried to obliterate. Talk about ancestral conflicts!

Fri Apr 15, 09:54:00 AM 2005  
Blogger Two Dogs said...

soundboyz, I have yet to see anyone in our discussions say to forget the part. All I read is that we should work together for the future.

My racial mixture means nothing to the way I act, it wouldn't no matter what.

Fri Apr 15, 10:00:00 AM 2005  
Blogger Imara said...

>I have yet to see anyone in our discussions say to forget the part

Two Dogs, not sure what you mean here, please explain.

Also, your racial make-up may have no bearing on how you act, but you better believe it has everything to do with the way you are treated.

Fri Apr 15, 11:17:00 AM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

>My racial mixture means nothing to the way I act, it wouldn't no matter what.

It was obvious that you would say that. Just remember if those percentages were switched around , your circumstances could very well be also . Meaning, If you looked more Native American as opposed to white, you might not be the person you are now!!Regardless of how YOU feel inside!!!

And Imara is right, it would affect how others treat you!I know it's wrong, but I do hear that some people ACTUALLY treat others different based on their appearance!!!!!Could you believe that CRAP!!!

Fri Apr 15, 11:25:00 AM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

Two Dogs, Where's the PICTURE??????That would end ALL this bickering!!!!!!!!

Fri Apr 15, 11:26:00 AM 2005  
Blogger Imara said...

>Two Dogs, Where's the PICTURE??????That would end ALL this bickering!!!!!!!!

Yeah, Two Dogs... we're waiting...

Fri Apr 15, 01:44:00 PM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

Well, I guess that answers that!!!

Fri Apr 15, 04:30:00 PM 2005  
Blogger KR said...

Yours is a very moving and informed post. I hesitate to mention this, but I will, so please forgive me, and know in advance that I do not mean to offend. Slavery is a human institution. It did not begin with the Blacks in America. It is older than written history, it is older than oral history.

Slavery was already in the Continental US before the Europeans arrived. Many of the tribal nations practiced slavery. The most obvious example, given the Bicentennial of the Lewis and Clark Expedition, is Sacajaweah. It is well-documented that she was a taken captive by the Mandans and lived as a slave for many years until she was later sold to a Frenchman. Such a practice was not uncommon amongst the 'Indians'.

And it was not uncommon amongst the Africans. Africa was fairly heavily populated 500 years ago. There was a lot of competition for land and resources. Tribes raided each other, enslaved each other, and sold each other to Whites who exported them off the continent. Its not pretty, but its true.

Wherever two cultures met and clashed, wherever there was War, there was slavery. Wherever there was grand civilization, there was slavery. The Egyptians enslaved entire cultures, as did the Romans, and the Persians, and there was an active slave trade in Asia (some might argue there still is?). The British exported Hindi as laborers all over the tropics. And then there were the Irish...

Again, I say that the history of slavery is as old as the history of the human animal. In focussing on slavery in the US without putting it in the broader context of slavery as a human institution, you are doing Blacks in America a huge disservice. Their plight / your plight / our plight is not unique, except in one way: the White Man finally found the enslavement of the Black Man morally repugnant enough to condemn slavery and try to keep it from being perpetuated in the States and elsewhere in the World.

No, slavery did not begin with the Blacks in America, but it ended with them. It is a remarkable and wonderous thing, that the Blacks in America demonstrated so eloquently the inhumanity of slavery that they were responsible for its abolition as an acceptible institution throughout the World.

Anyway, my thoughts on the subject.

Sat Apr 16, 12:11:00 AM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

Kelly , I am glad that you did decide to mention your feelings about slavery on a whole. I agree with your views totally . I do have knowledge about the history of slavery , and would add that it does certainly exist today.
I don't see how these facts change, in any way ,the validity, or severity of the Trans-Atlantic slave trade.

It would be as if I said that terrorism has existed all throughout history and therefore 9/11 , however tragic, was just another example of terrorism.I could then suggest that families of the victims should not seek compensation for that particular incident, rather they should just accept it as just another tragic event in the long history of terrorism.

Sat Apr 16, 12:46:00 AM 2005  
Blogger KR said...

We cannot compensate the victims of slavery or 9/11. They are all dead.

Mine is a very unpopular opinion, but I do not consider those who stand by demanding financial 'compensation' for the deaths of loved ones from 9/11 to be victims. I consider them to be people with a sense of entitlement who could better spend their time living today, living in the moment, rather than living off of money that comes from the taxes that hard-working people have to pay.

My mother died just before 9/11. I could not travel to claim her body because of 9/11. I was unable to look upon her, to wash her, to dress her, to prepare her body and say goodbye, as is my custom. No, I had to have her cremated because I could not afford to keep her on ice any longer. Should I join the queue of people with their hands out, claiming to be victimized by 9/11, feeling entitled to compensation for the emotional and the financial distress it caused me? I think not! No more than the Chumash Indians, from whom my mother was descended, would sue the Church for compensation because they were enslaved by Priests and forced to build the missions and the Camino Real of California.

In slavery, in war, in conflicts over land and religion and money and objects, there comes a point when the point is moot, when the argument is old and tired, when the lines are blurred and the fingers are pointing in all directions. When we reach this point all we can do is have compassion...for ourselves, for each other, for the victims, and the perpetrators. Especially the perpetrators. One cannot commit atrocity and not be touched by it.

I do not devalue or invalidate the experiences of black slaves in the Americas, nor the experiences of their descendants. But I think a time must come where each of us stands up and accepts responsibility for our own actions, assumes responsibility for making the most of our lives, and starts looking forward, toward the future, rather than backwards.

I worked for 7 years at an inner-city boys and girls club in New England. I know about the cycle of poverty and demoralization. I know about 10 year old girls getting pregant and 15 year old boys that have fathered 3 children already. I know about hopelessness, and reliving the past, and drugs, and guns, and death. And I know about hope, and determination, and education, and community, and love.

Educating each other on the experience of the black slaves in the Americas can be very valuable. But it is important that we take away more than intellectual knowledge of the facts or empathetic understanding of the heart-breaking suffering they endured. It is important that we understand that we each have the responsibility, not to see their descendants somehow compensated for the suffering of their ancestors, but to recognize those seeds within us that made slavery viable, and resolve not to perpetuate it ourselves.

Sat Apr 16, 01:40:00 AM 2005  
Blogger soundboyz said...

Kelly , I am truly sorry for your loss.

Sat Apr 16, 10:42:00 AM 2005  

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